On Tuesday, April 22, San Diego City College adjunct instructor of humanities and World Religions professor Marianne Peterson joined City Times Sound News Editor Vince Outlaw at the Knights Community Round Table to discuss the passing of Pope Francis early Monday, April 21, and its impact on the City College community. Complete transcript available below.
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Transcript:
Vince Outlaw 0:00
City Times Sound presents the Knights Community Round Table. In this interview based program, students engage with community members, college staff and fellow students to discuss topics that matter to us all.
Vince Outlaw 0:12
Welcome to the Knights Community Round Table on City Times Sound where your voice is heard. I’m your host. Vince outlaw today we’re joined by Professor Marianne Peterson, adjunct instructor of World Religions at San Diego City College, to discuss the passing of Pope Francis and its significance to the City College community. Thank you for being with us today, Professor Peterson. Pope Francis passed away on Monday, April 21 in Rome at the age of 88 after surprising many with several public appearances on Palm Sunday and Easter day after reportedly being near death in the last several months, what do you feel the legacy of Pope Francis will be, especially in comparison to previous pontiffs?
Marianne Peterson 0:58
Many of our students are believers or come from Catholic families, so his death will have a significant impact on on them in the coming days. For many Catholics, the Pope is a literal father figure, representative of what many call the father of fathers God. So his loss will be deeply felt, but faith in the new leader to come will be the light, I think that carries many faithful forward. So the timing of his death, as you mentioned, the activities that he’s been able to do in the last couple of days, highly significant. And I think it’s something that believers and non believers alike will be talking about for quite some time. How can I say he has quite a legacy? So he’s definitely embodies many firsts and also many traditions. So I guess we could talk about the first that he embodies. So he’s considered to be the first pope from the Americas, and so many people were in dear to him beyond the regular endearment toward a pope. He was our first Jesuit Pope, and so the Jesuits have traditionally worked within populations and have avoided positions of high power, and so part of his legacy will be that of embodying humility, which is at the core of according to the New Testament, the teachings of Jesus and Francis was the first to take the name of Francis of Sisi, Whose life mission was also humility, the care of each other and care for the planet. So his legacy, again, there’s there’s a lot, definitely he’ll be remembered for his ecumenical approach. Compared to other popes, he was very much more inclusive, and he had ongoing dialog with all the Christian sects and all of the major world religions. He seemed to truly believe that all people are brothers and sisters originating from the same source. And so I know that many people focus on the things that he wasn’t able to do in terms of being progressive. I mean, we definitely can consider him to be a progressive Pope relative to other popes, and so although he wasn’t able to move the church from some of its long held traditions, especially around the roles of women and the conservative perspective that the Church takes toward marriage, he’ll definitely be remembered as a reformer, and there are many examples of that. We might include things like the fact that he appointed women to positions within Church Administration, positions that are normally held by Cardinals. He, he, he very much embodied more of a Christ centered approach. That’s why that’s very philosophical. Maybe we could talk more about that later, trying to think of there’s just so many ways that he embodied the progressive kind of stance. I mean, he insisted that the church, you know, that church teaching should develop with the times. So I remember that in December he appointed, I think it was 21 new cardinals, many of whom also embody progressive philosophies of inclusion. And so something that he said in terms of LGBTQ, he often would say, ‘Who am I to judge?’ And although he didn’t advocate for changing church doctrine, especially around marriage, he did insist that if a person had a good heart and believed in a higher divine power, that this was what really mattered. And Christ consciousness, I mean, really permanent. It’s, it’s something that he spoke of often, and he would often kind of simplify very complicated political arguments with what many believers call the two greatest commandments, which are love God and and love your neighbor. I another kind of embodiment of the Pope as a reformer, he I would say that part of his legacy that’s definitely relevant is his position on how governments treat migrants, refugees and all marginalized people, and his approach is very much in line with New Testament teachings of Jesus, which advocate for For the dignity and familial relationship between all humans, regardless of their origins and status, and so we know that in the last few weeks, he was very openly against you know, in terms of Israel and Palestine. In his mind, war was was a failure, and so his heart always seemed to be with the populations that are disadvantaged.
Vince Outlaw 7:04
So do you so in talking about the reformer and the progressive things that you’ve talked about, do you feel that this pontiff, that Francis was more connected to young people than maybe prior popes or pontiffs would have been.
Marianne Peterson 7:27
I believe so. I believe that his his message, was much more in line with especially here in the US, with the hearts and minds of younger generations, which very much kind of want to leave behind. You know, the old wars from the past. And his message was consistently simple, take care of the earth and each other. And I think younger generations relate to that very well.
Vince Outlaw 8:05
Some of the city college students that I’ve talked to have expressed, you know, those positive views, but some community members are also expressing reservations about the possible selection of a next pontiff being more conservative, especially in light of the current religious and political climate in the United States, could the selection of a more conservative pontiff have ramifications for particular members of our city college community?
Marianne Peterson 8:37
It very well could, I would say, depending on their level of belief and participation in in the church. Because from a from a believers perspective, from a Catholic perspective, the Pope is a father figure, and so Catholic tradition would would basically support that figure as Being the leader. And so definitely, I think many people will want to see a figure that is equally or even more progressive than Pope Francis. And many people might see the election of a more conservative Pope as a, you know, a backward step, but again, from the believers perspective, this is the father figure, and so it’s it’ll be interesting to see how people come into alignment with whoever the new pope is, and what. Is what his core beliefs will be in terms of, you know, are they going to stay in line with the with the conservative teachings, or will they be more progressive?
Vince Outlaw 10:15
What about non-believers in our community, or or other believers who are not Catholic. What the impact of, you know, the the next pope could be. The next pope could be
Marianne Peterson 10:36
In terms of non-believers. You know, the impact. I think many people will see the new pope as just another, you know, figure in the ongoing conversation of things that are affecting us all over the world, whether it’s, you know, civil rights, immigration, refugee status, war, all of these things. I think from the non-believer’s perspective, they’ll be interested. They’ll be interested to see you know, from a conversational standpoint, what this new figure has to has to contribute
Vince Outlaw 11:33
So students in your world religions courses, or course at San Diego City College. Have you been able to talk to them about about this? Since, since his passing,
Marianne Peterson 11:48
I have, so we are an online class. So I have, I did make an announcement, and I did, you know, ask for anybody that was interested in being interviewed. I haven’t heard back yet, but generally it’s very quiet. We do cover Christianity starting next week, so definitely the conversation will change in terms of what we cover with how, you know, the historical, basically, the historical mechanism by which we even came to have and, you know, recognize the figure of Pope and what quote, unquote Pope means. And so it will definitely our discussion on Catholic leadership will take on new significance because of his death.
Vince Outlaw 12:58
So how should students and other city college community members. Think about the process of choosing a new pope, and not so much the you know, the the pomp and circumstance, although that may, that, may, you know, be something to touch on, but more about the conversations that are happening, and how should students and community members think and take those things in, be on their own worldview?
Marianne Peterson 13:34
Can you repeat the first part of that? I’m not sure I understand. Yeah,
Vince Outlaw 13:38
So I, I’m, trying to see if there are any road maps or ways that students and other community members should look at the future events that happen in relation to the choosing of the pontiff and the choice of the new pontiff. If there’s things that they should be looking at, or maybe even voices that you can recommend that people in our community look at or or consume from content standpoint, to keep up to date and to think about the impacts.
Marianne Peterson 14:24
Well, I would say it would be good for students to choose a broad range of sources in understanding the process going forward. Ultimately the decision will come down to a handful of well, I shouldn’t say ultimately the decision will come down to, it’s, it’s 120 Cardinals that will lack the next pope. And so the process will go on daily until they come up with two final candidates, and then one of those candidates has to achieve. Of two thirds of the vote. So ultimately, in the grand scheme of human population, right? It’s a small number that will that will choose the next pope. And so I would say it would be great for students to consult multiple sources. Talk to their families, talk to their you know, church leadership if they attend church. And you know, ultimately, the Pope is a highly symbolic figure, and it’s, it’s really just a mark, and in the timeline of the human experience, it’s, it’s, I’m not trying to diminish it. It’s just, it’s just kind of the election of a new pope is, is kind of a normal part of the process. It is important for the ongoing dialog, the worldwide dialog, that we’re having, ecumenical dialog. Yeah, I’m not, I’m not sure what else to say about that. Okay,
Vince Outlaw 16:18
Do you have kind of in closing. Do you have any other thoughts on the passing of Francis or the mourning period or the selection of a new pontiff in relation to our community?
Marianne Peterson 16:31
Yes, actually, there’s some interesting things that I’ve kind of been thinking about in the last couple of days, and it has to do with the timing of his of his death. So I know that many believers will feel kind of the gift that his last words were and compassion for the stranger was at the heart of that message. But on a deeper level, according to Catholic calendar, we’re now in the time of Pentecost, which is actually a time of great hope and renewal. So according to belief, after the death of Jesus, the Apostles gathered in a kind of like, okay, what do we do now? Meeting, and this is considered the birth of the church. And so what do we do? So from the believers perspective, right? We do what Jesus told us to do. And so at the heart of that message was Love God and love your neighbor, which is very much Pope Francis’s core message. So despite the loss, this is also considered a very hopeful season, and it’s also marked by ascension, day in May, which is considered the day that you know, Jesus ascended into heaven from his resurrected state. And so there’s, there’s deeper symbolism there in terms of the timing of his death. And in a way, it’s like, regardless of of the new pope that is elected, Francis’ message will continue to resonate with many 1000s of people, and I think that’s that’s going to be a key
Vince Outlaw 18:28
Well, I really appreciate your time, and we really, we really appreciate hearing from you, Professor on this. Thank you so much for being with us.
Marianne Peterson 18:40
I appreciate it.
Vince Outlaw 18:42
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